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#1 Wisconsin budget cuts: Madison rally attracts thousands
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:06 pm
by frigidmagi
BBC
[quote]Nearly 70,000 protesters have taken part in rival protests in the US state of Wisconsin over planned budget cuts.
On the fifth day of such protests, opponents of the Republican state Governor, Scott Walker, outnumbered supporters of the bill.
The bill introduced in the Wisconsin congress would cut sharply the wages and benefits of public sector workers, and curtail collective bargaining.
Saturday's rallies were peaceful despite angry chants on both sides.
Union supporters in the state capital Madison outnumbered the pro-Walker rally, organised by the conservative groups Tea Party Patriots and Americans for Prosperity, the Associated Press news agency reports.
Among the Walker supporters was "Joe the Plumber", real name Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, who figured in the 2008 Republican presidential campaign.
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What happens here is going to be very important to what happens in a lot of other statesâ€
#2
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:16 pm
by Derek Thunder
Public-sector unions are really the last bastion of organized labor in this country - if the republicans can break this union, they've essentially 'won' the 30-year war against workers that started when Reagan took on the air traffic controllers. If this was really about issues of deficits and revenue, then you probably would have seen a more limited rhetorical framework built around union concessions (like what happened with the auto bailouts) rather than an attempt to remove the thing that actually makes a union a 'union.'
Whether they'll succeed is another matter entirely, but this is a battle of incredible significance.
#3
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:09 pm
by The Cleric
My union is good for making it difficult to fire under-performing employees. I have literally never interacted with a rep aside from new hire training in November 09. Are they really needed anymore? Should a trade skill worker really make $70/hour for fitting pipes? They're not WORTH that much, aside from the fact the company then overcharges for their labor, and the cost is passed to the consumer...
#4
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:42 pm
by SirNitram
Yea, your union sounds like shit. But not all unions are shit(My thoughts go to the UMWA, whose main efforts are making the damn occupation safer), and more importantly, getting rid of unions entirely could allow the rolling back of everything they acheived. Like the weekend. Or minimum wage.
#5
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:14 am
by frigidmagi
Here's the thing Cleric, the Unions have already agreed to cutbacks. They've agreed to take a hit. However the governor demands they give up collective bargining. However the Unions that supported him during the election are exempt from this. Doesn't that sound a tiny bit fishy?
#6
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:48 am
by The Cleric
Nitram: I'm not saying unions WEREN'T a good. As much as I dislike the idea of them, they were entirely necessary to keep larger companies from just running roughshod over their workers. I'm asking if they're required anymore, or at least in the same capacity as they used to be.
frigid: That's shady. Although I'm not surprised at all. I can hardly think of a group I dislike more than politicians (on the whole).
#7
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:35 pm
by Derek Thunder
The Cleric wrote:Nitram: I'm not saying unions WEREN'T a good. As much as I dislike the idea of them, they were entirely necessary to keep larger companies from just running roughshod over their workers. I'm asking if they're required anymore, or at least in the same capacity as they used to be.
The relationship between business and labor will always be an adversarial one, with business seeking to obtain the maximum amount of labor for minimum cost (otherwise the shareholders would revolt). Excepting a few high-skilled white-collar fields, unions are still necessary, as the power divide between the two groups has only grown larger thanks to globalization and offshoring.
#8
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:20 pm
by SirNitram
Cleric: Alright. I just like bringing up that Unions gave us the weekend. :)
Also, seventy thousand people? No wonder Ian's Pizza has stopped taking orders for normal operations and just lets people donate to the protestors.
#9
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:35 pm
by Charon
Gonna have to second Derek on this one actually. Now, I'm not saying that unions are the greatest thing ever. They can be almost as great of douche bags as the other side can be. God knows when we were trying to fix the budget in New York the unions absolutely refused pay cuts and even went so far as to demand the pay raises that had been worked out before the financial crisis began.
But if we get rid of unions, I doubt it would take very long for most businesses to go back to the old way of doing things. Work 60 hour weeks, 15 minute lunches, no breaks, work six days a week. You don't like it? We'll find someone who will. There's a reason that businesses love going to developing countries, it's because they can get away with shit like that. Should unions undergo change? Perhaps. But I'm not about to attempt to explain how or why.
#10
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:48 pm
by The Cleric
We don't need unions to keep us from 60 hour work weeks. The laws are already on the books. Honestly, what do unions do anymore aside from negotiate pay raise structures and benefits, and make it difficult to terminate employees (legitimate or otherwise)? The historical need for unions is clear, but it seems to me that they've already achieved the original goals with the current laws, and the government is taking a far more proactive role in curbing excesses from the business side. I just don't see going back to the turn of the century style of treating workers even if unions were outlawed tomorrow.
#11
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:48 pm
by Derek Thunder
Laws aren't set in stone though, especially when it comes to laws that inconvenience the powerful and wealthy - From the early 1930s until 1999, it was a law that investment banks and commercial banks would forever be separate, never to meet - Until the law that established that rule was repealed, and we're all poorer for it. Additionally, the federal agencies that protect workers have bills to pay, and in this current season of hysterical budget-cutting mania, I imagine the Dept. of Labor and OSHA have big targets on their backs right now.
The Democratic party isn't necessarily married to organized labor (identity-interest groups and rich social liberals don't prioritize such issues) - If unions were to disappear tomorrow, we wouldn't immediately turn into a 19th-century coal mining town, but without a left-labor position to anchor the window of acceptable policy discourse, you'd see an erosion of worker protections and rights. There has to be a strong political counterbalance to capitol, otherwise we might as well just admit we're an oligarchy, call it a day, and huddle around the warmth of an OLED television mesmerized by "Friendship is Magic*" whilst the world collapses around us.
*Not saying anything against the show however.
#12
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:39 pm
by Soontir948
Even with unions it's not always pretty. I was talking to an NYPD officer about how the upcoming contract may further lower the benefits for new recruits. Even just a few years ago the starting salary for an officer was 25 fucking thousand dollars which thankfully went up from that since then.
Anyway apparently public workers already have lower salary and benefits than private workers in Wisconsin:
EPI
#13
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:51 pm
by Charon
The Cleric wrote:We don't need unions to keep us from 60 hour work weeks. The laws are already on the books. Honestly, what do unions do anymore aside from negotiate pay raise structures and benefits, and make it difficult to terminate employees (legitimate or otherwise)? The historical need for unions is clear, but it seems to me that they've already achieved the original goals with the current laws, and the government is taking a far more proactive role in curbing excesses from the business side. I just don't see going back to the turn of the century style of treating workers even if unions were outlawed tomorrow.
The same set of laws that Wisconsin is working to overturn?
I'm not saying you don't have a point, and I'm not saying that this is necessarily the first step in the return to no minimum wage, but I feel safer knowing there is something more than just the government between myself and businesses, especially when it comes to the governments recent lapses in judgment when it comes to such matters. Unions have achieved their original goals, but that just means that unions should change, not that they should go the way of the dinosaurs.
#14
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:35 am
by frigidmagi
General Strike!
The South Central Federation of Labor, an umbrella organization representing more than 45,000 workers in Wisconsin, voted last night to endorse a general strike if the state legislature passes Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill, the Wisconsin State Journal reports.
About 100 delegates of the 97-union federation voted unanimously in favor of the strike, and called for the group to start educating its members and affiliates on the "organization and function of a general strike." There were no details available about how the strike would work or how many workers would take part.
About 68,000 people came out Saturday to protest the bill, which would strip public employee unions of most collective bargaining rights. Protests are now entering a second week but were smaller today as most teachers returned to work.
Wisconsin's Senate Democrats have not returned to the state from their hideout in Illinois, leaving Republicans to try to lure them back by moving forward on other legislation. Republicans have enough members to be able to vote on measures that don't spend money, but 20 senators must be present for a vote on spending bills.
So far, there is no prospect of a resolution to the stalemate over Walker's bill. The Governor, who said Monday that he will not negotiate over the bill, plans to address voters during a "fireside chat" tonight, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
The emergency budget repair bill, which includes $165 million in bond refinancing, must be passed by Friday to make sure the state can pay its bills in the 2011 fiscal year. Walker said Tuesday that 1,500 people could lose their jobs by July if the legislation is not passed.
Read more:
http://www.businessinsider.com/wisconsi ... z1EnwVJiVT
I award bonus points to the man in the cheesy Captain America suit with the "Unions Assemble" sign.