ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

F&C: Dwarves, Superhero's and Catgirls, oh my!

Moderator: frigidmagi

Post Reply
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
21
Location: Alone and unafraid

#1 ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by frigidmagi »

VoicesfromKrypton
Contrary to the common belief inherent in Batman’s filmography, Robin: the Boy Wonder is nothing short of essential to the character of Batman. Since the 1940s, Robin has been latched onto his side as not only a balance of character or an appeal to a younger audience, but as a concept that completes the character of Batman and makes him what he must be when all is said and done: a human being. Without the younger, more cheerful, and more vulnerable ward at his side, Batman would become engulfed in a darkness that would consume him in a matter of time.

What many laypeople do not know is that the black and yellow cape has been worn by five separate characters (within comic continuity), making the Bat-Family much more like a real one, with older and younger siblings, awkward reunions, and even family tragedies (Stephanie Brown filled in as Robin for a very brief time, which will not be addressed in this piece). Following the model of a modern family, the Robins are all very unique, yet dependant on each other’s existence and prior experiences. Some did better than others, and some chose different paths than others. The mantle of Robin is important not only because of its role in the life of Batman, but because of the lives they live when their Boy Wonder days are over.

The very first Robin was Richard “Dick” Grayson. He was a young boy that came from a family of acrobats performing in Haly’s Circus. The Flying Graysons were a crowd pleaser that did spectacular stunts until the terrible day that a gangster named Tony Zucco sabotaged their act and caused the death of Dick’s Parents. Bruce Wayne happened to be in the audience that day, and being so sympathetic for the young boy’s predicament, he decided to take Dick into his home. Dick Grayson became an adopted son to Bruce and the two were very good company for each other. One day, however, Batman caught a young boy seeking vengeance for his parent’s murder and saw a situation all too familiar to him. He knew that Dick needed the same release to save him from a life of darkness and despair, so he revealed his identity to him and decided to train him as a protégé. Thus the role of Robin was invented.

This was the first time Bruce ever considered concepts such as being a father or training a partner. Dick gave Bruce a reason to keep fighting to stay alive; he needed to go home at night to take care of his son. It gave him a responsibility that taught him values such as positivity and human compassion. Dick always looked at the bright side of life, which was new for the angst-ridden Dark Knight. Also, Bruce knew he couldn’t always be so negative and ominous around this child that just lost his parents, so he learned how to be more uplifting and endearing. In many ways the creation of Robin saved Batman from a dismal future and became essential to his existence. He would someday learn, however, that all things change in time.

Dick Grayson grew older, as all young men do. He reached college age and became more of a free thinker. He cared about Bruce, but started questioning his methods from time to time. As he became his own man, he developed his own opinions of how to fight crime. He even came into his own role as leader of the teenaged superhero team-up known as The Teen Titans. Tension built between the two, which led to the inevitable split. Dick decided that he wanted to be his own man, with a new name, costume, and city to defend. So he donned an outfit that resembled the one he wore with his family in the circus and left for Blüdhaven, calling himself Nightwing. Bruce was hurt by this decision, but respected it. In time, the two became close once again, but Nightwing had outgrown the shadow under which he had been raised.

The Angry Middle Child

The once again solo Batman one day left the Batmobile parked in an alley as he did his usual work. When he returned, however, he found quite a surprise. It takes a great deal of courage, or perhaps stupidity, to attempt something as brazen as stealing the wheels from the Batmobile while Batman wasn’t looking. The surprise wasn’t the deed, though. It was the fact that it was done by a child. Young Jason Todd was caught in the act and surrendered to the legendary Caped Crusader. Amused, Batman took an interest. As it turned out, Jason came from a very rough upbringing, his parents having been caught up in the world of drugs, gambling, and mobsters. Alone, Jason was a troubled youth in need of guidance. Bruce saw this as an opportunity to fill the recent void in his life. Thus the second Robin was born.

This is not the original origin of the character, but has come to be the general, accepted story elbowed into comic continuity years later. He became the second adopted son of Bruce Wayne and lived in his mansion just as Dick used to. Jason was meant to be a fresh new approach to the role of Robin, being a different person with a different personality. As he grew older, he became harsh and inconsiderate to criminals. He had a great deal of pent up anger and became somewhat of a loose cannon on the streets. Jason was unlike Dick in various ways, making his presence as Robin different and sometimes displeasing. The Batman comic book fan base disapproved of him and begged for the writers to find an excuse to get rid of him. As the old saying goes, they should’ve been “careful what they wished for.”

Jason was too brutal in his crime fighting methods, so Bruce took the time to consider what he should do about him. He felt that perhaps he was asking too much of the boy to put his anger over the loss of his parents aside, so he benched him as Robin. Bruce told Jason to take some time to grieve and get his head straight so that he could make an ultimate decision as to whether or not he thought he was suited to be the Boy Wonder any longer. In his time alone, Jason decided to do his own investigation into his mother, learning that she may in fact still be alive. Finding a potential lead on her location, he took matters into his own hands. Through a series of events, Jason traveled overseas with a woman that he believed may be his mother, but the Joker is also there. Joker apprehends Jason and does something the fans all wanted him to do: he killed Robin.

Jason was given a savage beating with a crowbar and left in a building rigged with explosives. Batman raced as fast as he could to rescue his partner, but arrived too late. He found the battered body of Jason Todd among the wreckage and mourned for his death. This was a defining moment in Batman’s life. To this day, the death of Jason Todd resonates in the Bat Family as one of Bruce Wayne’s darkest moments; one of his greatest regrets. He felt responsible for allowing this troubled child to get tangled up in a dangerous and deadly world. He felt like he failed Jason and himself, so he decided he would no longer put the lives of innocent young people on the line for the sake of his mission. He couldn’t bear the thought of losing someone that way again.

The Spoiled Youngest

There was a young boy in the audience when the Flying Graysons took their fatal fall; a hyper-intelligent young boy that came from a wonderful, happy family. Timothy “Tim” Drake was one of Batman’s biggest fans, and smart enough to deduce things on his own that even some of Batman’s most formidable enemies couldn’t. To the amazement of the Dark Knight, this young man deduced on his own that Bruce Wayne, the billionaire in the audience, must be the Batman and Dick Grayson, the son of the murdered acrobats, must have been the first Robin, who had become Nightwing. He also concluded that the second Robin was either dead or M.I.A. and that Batman needed a new one. Batman was adamant in his refusal for another Robin, but couldn’t ignore the brilliance of this child. Tim knew that the dynamic duo needed to exist and that he would be a good choice, so he tried to elbow his way into it. Batman still refused until a terrible day when Tim’s mother was killed and his father crippled. While Bruce Wayne knew that Tim would make a good Robin, he now recognized that Tim needed to be Robin. Thus the third Robin was born.

Tim wasn’t driven by vengeance quite like his predecessors were. Rather, he was driven by a strong dedication to truth and justice; a respect for the good Batman brought to Gotham City. He was living proof that regardless of the origin, Robin had to exist; Batman needed him to. Tim was by far the most intellectual and detective-like out of his predecessors, yet held his own after being trained in expert combat techniques. He fit into the role so well that he settled in for a long stay. Tim Drake remains Robin to this day, and he’s the only incarnation of the character to be featured in his own comic series published during his time as Robin, which ran for over a hundred issues.

Tim was very close with his parents and had a wonderful childhood. This perhaps made him relate more to Dick than to Jason. His father remained alive, although crippled, and was a great inspiration to Tim until tragedy struck again. Captain Boomerang murdered Jack Drake, making Robin an orphan, like each Robin before him. In time, Tim accepts his birthright and becomes the third adopted son of Bruce Wayne. He loves his family and misses them more than anything, but also comes to feel acceptance and peace in his role with Bruce Wayne. Unlike his big brothers, Tim never wanted to be anything other than Robin. The role even became rechristened “The Teen Wonder,” since he had been in it for so long.

Tim became the leader of the Teen Titans, like Dick, but was the undeniable best choice for the role. He became essential to Gotham City and to the Bat Family. His morals were uncompromising and his mission was laser-focused. Bruce never had to worry about Tim. In fact, it was Tim that was always looking out for Bruce. In storylines such as R.I.P., Tim goes to great extents to track down the Batman and make sure everything is okay. Dick Grayson showed initiative to work alone, but Tim was the first to do so in an efficient fashion as Robin. Tim was everything anyone could ask for in a sidekick… so why would Batman fire him?

Looking at each Robin’s career, it’s interesting to consider how they work as a “family,” since by law they are indeed brothers. The eldest son didn’t want to live in his father’s shadow his whole life and moved out in a fit of defiance. The middle child was reckless and desperate to be unique from his big brother, which led to his ultimate failure. The youngest is set apart from the other two enough to learn from their mistakes and succeed where the others failed. This is not unlike a typical household, but which is was the “best” Robin? At first glance, it may seem obvious, but the analogy becomes even more interesting when considering their careers after losing the golden “R.”

Jason Todd was killed, but did have a post-mortem career. Through a series of events that has been retold a few times in DC canon, Jason was resurrected. A common story is that Talia al Ghul and her father Ra’s used the mystical Lazarus Pit to restore his body to life. After reentering the world, Jason learned that Batman had not only failed to avenge his death (by killing the Joker), but has replaced him with a new young ward. Torn up inside by grief and anger, Jason receives even more training in the arts of marksmanship, combat, and assassination, and decides that Batman is not the hero Jason once believed him to be. Jason sets out to become Gotham’s true reckoning as The Red Hood.

Jason failed his mission and became somewhat of a lost soul in the DC Universe, while Nightwing was a huge success in his newfound home Blüdhaven as was Tim as Robin. In a short matter of time, this all changed. A terrible villain, Deathstroke, instigated a terroristic attack on Blüdhaven that led to its complete annihilation, leaving a devastated Nightwing without a city to protect and nowhere to go but back home. Then, after the cataclysmic events of Final Crisis, the unimaginable happened: Batman was killed in action. With the Caped Crusader gone, Gotham City was left to whatever heroes remained loyal to the Bat Family. There was no shortage, but it wasn’t long before the Wayne sons had to make a drastic adjustment.

In the events of Battle for the Cowl, Jason Todd took this opportunity to do what he always wanted to do: take Batman’s place. Dick was advised by Batman never to take up the cape and cowl after his eventual death, making this possible for Jason. Dick and Tim fought this new, brutal, and deadly Batman as Nightwing and Robin, but Tim saw a need for change. He insisted that one of them take up the mantle and that Dick should be the one to do it. In the end, Jason was defeated by Nightwing, who then realized that if he didn’t take up the mantle, people like Jason would. The shocking detail of this outcome, however, was who he chose to be his Robin.

The Spawn of Satan

In the not-so-distant past leading up to this time in Batman’s history, a new character entered Wayne Manor. Bruce Wayne and Talia al Ghul had a child, but Talia kept this from Bruce until the boy was ten years old. Raised as a master assassin by the League of Shadows, the grandson of Ra’s al Ghul, Damian Wayne, came into the life of Bruce and his sons. Wanting to become like his father someday, Damian is anxious to learn about this Bat Family, but the family learns in a short time how much guidance this boy will need. He was raised by killers and therefore believed that killing was the best solution to wrongdoing – obviously a huge problem, as any Batman fan knows. So, he was put on the bench until he learned the right path and could perhaps one day follow in his father’s footsteps.

Once Bruce was gone, Damian became a responsibility that fell upon the shoulders of the oldest son, Dick Grayson. If Bruce wouldn’t be there to teach him the ways of truth and justice, Dick would have to do so himself. In order to do this, Dick saw the most proper solution to be a bestowal of the red, green, and yellow. As much of a chore as he knew it would be, Dick decided to take on the responsibility of raising Damian and showing him how to follow in their father’s footsteps. Dick Grayson was Batman now, and Damian Wayne was Robin. Thus the fourth official Robin came into being.

In a world where the dynamic duo must go on no matter what, it is fascinating to consider the relationship of these two; the original Robin as Batman and Batman’s son as Robin. The result was a witty, upbeat, and graceful Batman working with a dark, brooding, and brutal Robin. The reversal sounds uncomfortable, but worked in a big way, to the surprise of not only the fans, but the whole universe of characters. Even those who were skeptical toward this new team would soon look up to see them tumbling through the air and feel foolish for doubting them. They impressed almost everyone with their presence and efficiency.

One character still saw this as bastardization, however. Tim Drake never did anything to deserve being fired. He was Batman’s most loyal soldier; his closest ally. He wouldn’t even accept the fact that Batman was dead and insisted that his allies continue to investigate, which only led to him being cast out and thought to be crazy. His ties to his family were severed after seeing his beloved colors worn by the “demon child” of the League of Shadows. He went off on his own and became his own vigilante, although it was the last thing on Earth he wanted to do. He didn’t even bother to name himself. The common name that people came to use for him was Red Robin.

Justice?

Damian was difficult to get used to, given the funny accent, lack of humor, and constant threatening of people’s lives. He did find his place, however, after working with Dick long enough and became an acceptable Robin. Red Robin, meanwhile, never gave up on his mission to find Bruce Wayne. Without Bruce, Tim had nothing, could do nothing. He was Robin and nothing else, which made him an outcast after Batman was gone. As disappointing as it may be for fans to see a beloved character in such an unjust situation, it at least made sense. Things turned strange once again, however, when Bruce returned to life.

Tim was right after all, which gave him peace of mind. Bruce came back and donned his cape and cowl once again, making everyone wonder “what’s going to happen to everyone else?” Dick should have gone back to his Nightwing persona, right? Tim can work with his long lost mentor again, right? Damian made things complicated. In fact, if it wasn’t for Damian, things would have gone that way in all likelihood. They couldn’t though, because Damian earned the right to be Robin and had nothing else to return to. This made the decision difficult, but Bruce decided to roll with it. He told Dick and Damian to just keep doing what they were doing and let him worry about new things; national things.

Bruce could have let Dick go and taken Damian on as his own Robin, but after trying this dynamic once on a mission, he saw Damian’s natural defiance and stubborn independence as a huge problem and claimed “the chances of you and I working together as Batman and Robin are ZERO, Damian!” This left him to his ultimate decision to keep him working with Dick. Tim began fading away in DC comics, while Bruce took on the challenge of his new initiative: Batman Incorporated. He travelled the world and created a network of Bat Family members. Tim was on board, but wasn’t Robin. He was his own man, but didn’t know what to do with himself.

When DC Comics rebooted their entire comic universe in 2011, they had an opportunity to set things right in the Bat Family, but the choices they made were confusing. They made Dick Grayson Nightwing again, but Blüdhaven was still destroyed, so he hung around in Gotham. Bruce was Batman again, but had Damian at his side, despite his obvious abhorrence to the idea just months beforehand. Tim got a new costume, which looked cool, but he was still cast out and on his own. We still don’t know what happened in this new continuity, but the fate of Tim Drake is the same, only now he doesn’t have his own comic and is only seen in the Teen Titans title. Damian may be destined to take his father’s place someday, but is he destined to be his father’s Robin?

The Verdict

There are arguments for each and every Robin being at the Dark Knight’s side over the years:

- Dick was the original; the template.
- Jason filled the void Dick left behind
- Tim created the least amount of problems and was the most loyal
- Damian is the true son of Batman

The role of Robin is every bit as essential as that of Batman himself. Just like Dick was forced to take on the role after Bruce’s death, someone has to be there to be Robin. When it all boils down, however, the making of a perfect Robin is in the mentality. Each Robin has a reason to assume that role, allowing them to behave in their own, unique way.

Every Robin had plans for retirement except Tim. Dick wanted to be his own man someday, Jason wanted to be a better Batman, and Damian someday will take his father’s place as heir to his cape and cowl. Tim never planned on retiring. He was going to be Robin forever, which was evident when he had no idea what to do or what to call himself when those days were over. Tim was the most loyal Robin and saved Batman the most times. He had his own comic for years and was the undisputed best leader of the Teen Titans (They did not make Damian their leader before the reboot and now Damian is not even on the team).

Why poor Tim is made to suffer may remain a mystery, but the truth is that Damian has big shoes to fill, not just with his father’s someday, but with Robin’s right now. There is plenty of time to impress us, but it has been a few years since he took on the role and he has yet accomplished anything on the level that Tim did in his time as the Boy Wonder. Only time will tell what the fate of Tim and Damian will be, since the two older brothers are comfortable in their new roles (Jason Todd is the leader of a small team of antiheroes now) while these two still seem to be struggling for significance in theirs.
I thought this was interesting and warranted discussion.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
User avatar
Cynical Cat
Arch-Magician
Posts: 11930
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
21
Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
Contact:

#2 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by Cynical Cat »

Robin is entirely dispensable.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
User avatar
LadyTevar
Pleasure Kitten Foreman
Posts: 13197
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:25 pm
20
Location: In your lap, purring
Contact:

#3 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by LadyTevar »

I disagree, Cat. Batman without Robin starts to forget that there's more to life than hunting criminals. Perhaps another way to look at it is Batman may not need a Robin, but Bruce Wayne does.
Image

Dogs are Man's Best Friend
Cats are Man's Adorable Little Serial Killers
User avatar
Dark Silver
Omnipotent Overlord
Posts: 5484
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:15 pm
21
Contact:

#4 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by Dark Silver »

I personally, don't view Robin as dispensable.

Robin exists as a counterpoint to the Batman - or should anyway. The dynamic which worked up until Damien's introduction was allowing Batman to not lose himself in his own personal dark psyche.

I haven't read any of the comics in several years though, so I'm not sure how the current team of Damien and Bruce is.
Allen Thibodaux | Archmagus | Supervillain | Transfan | Trekker | Warsie |
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
User avatar
Batman
The Dark Knight
Posts: 4357
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:47 am
20
Location: The Timmverse, the only place where DC Comics still make a modicum of sense
Contact:

#5 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by Batman »

Robins wear bright colours. That makes them easily visible, which in turn means the bad guys shoot at them not me. Like hell Robin is dispensable.
Though I probably wouldn't particularly mind if they actually manage to hit Damien.
Last edited by Batman on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'I wonder how far the barometer sunk.'-'All der way. Trust me on dis.'
'Go ahead. Bake my quiche'.
'Undead or alive, you're coming with me.'
'Detritus?'-'Yessir?'-'Never go to Klatch'.-'Yessir.'
'Many fine old manuscripts in that place, I believe. Without price, I'm told.'-'Yes, sir. Certainly worthless, sir.'-'Is it possible you misunderstood what I just said, Commander?'
'Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little'
'Run away, and live to run away another day'-The Rincewind principle
'Hello, inner child. I'm the inner babysitter.'
User avatar
Cynical Cat
Arch-Magician
Posts: 11930
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
21
Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
Contact:

#6 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by Cynical Cat »

He's entirely dispensable. For example, see every Batman movie worth seeing. There are plenty of people can interact with, such as Alfred and Gordon, who can present alternate viewpoints and "lighten the darkness" if such as needed. They don't add the issue of taking an underage kid into mortal peril or diluting the tone. All the adult members of the Bat Family also work much better.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
User avatar
rhoenix
The Artist formerly known as Rhoenix
Posts: 7998
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:01 pm
19
Location: "Here," for varying values of "here."
Contact:

#7 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by rhoenix »

Honestly, the Robin dynamic with Batman struck me as off. In my mind, Batman more or less adopts Robin originally because he sees himself in the kid, and tries to give him a better childhood than he himself had. Considering what Bruce Wayne's childhood and upbringing were like after he became an orphan, though it is understandable, it also comes across as... a little weird. Like, Michael Jackson weird.

Whether Michael was just desperately and insanely trying to pretend he was a kid again or whether he was actually a child molester, it still comes across as... off. As in "mental issues that need addressing."

Now, yes, I know, angst and mental problems drive many plot points in stories and comic universi. But... still. I'm with CynCat on this one - the person who reminds Batman that not everything is dark and stormy nights with masked assholes is a good archetype to have in a universe like Batman's, but having that archetype be brought out in a character like Robin's doesn't bring it across well.

I never saw much of Batman Beyond, but I always liked the idea as it pertains to Batman having a minion/sidekick/successor. If Wayne gets too old and infirm, and becomes the grandfather/uncle to a character like Terry McGuinness, that sort of dynamic can work, as Terry's idealism is balanced out by his boss' hilariously grumpy cynicism.
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

- William Gibson


Josh wrote:What? There's nothing weird about having a pet housefly. He smuggles cigarettes for me.
User avatar
Batman
The Dark Knight
Posts: 4357
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:47 am
20
Location: The Timmverse, the only place where DC Comics still make a modicum of sense
Contact:

#8 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by Batman »

I absolutely think there being a brightly coloured target distracting the bad guys from shooting at me being perfectly worthwhile, thank you very much.
And no he's not (yes, I know there's been one and a half female Robins). Robin is what keeps me human. Alfred's a friend, as is Jim, but they're both...outsiders, where my job is concerned. Robin's an insider. He wears the tights, he suffered the same losses (at least for most of the canon ones), and he still lives. Robin not only goes to, he actually enjoys parties. He frets over having to lie to his girlfriend over his night job. He worries about how to into the pants of the original Batgirl (which, incidentally, goes for both Dick and Jason).He frets over another costumed crimefighter wannabe apparently having the hots for him when he already has a girlfriend. Robin is my link to the real world and a reminder that out in the real world, Bruce Wayne is the one who is the real person. Robin is the one who reminds me I actually have a life, not just an occupation.
'I wonder how far the barometer sunk.'-'All der way. Trust me on dis.'
'Go ahead. Bake my quiche'.
'Undead or alive, you're coming with me.'
'Detritus?'-'Yessir?'-'Never go to Klatch'.-'Yessir.'
'Many fine old manuscripts in that place, I believe. Without price, I'm told.'-'Yes, sir. Certainly worthless, sir.'-'Is it possible you misunderstood what I just said, Commander?'
'Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little'
'Run away, and live to run away another day'-The Rincewind principle
'Hello, inner child. I'm the inner babysitter.'
User avatar
Cynical Cat
Arch-Magician
Posts: 11930
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
21
Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
Contact:

#9 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by Cynical Cat »

Wrong. Robin's a kid. A student and sidekick who takes orders and has no experience leading an adult life. The dependent student with no adult life experience, I might add, of an intensely controlling man. To Alfred Batman is Bruce Wayne's obsession. To Alfred Batman is the mask and Bruce Wayne is the reality. He's the one who has lived a life, raised Bruce from a child, and can relate to Bruce as an adult.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
User avatar
rhoenix
The Artist formerly known as Rhoenix
Posts: 7998
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:01 pm
19
Location: "Here," for varying values of "here."
Contact:

#10 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by rhoenix »

Batman wrote:I absolutely think there being a brightly coloured target distracting the bad guys from shooting at me being perfectly worthwhile, thank you very much.
*slow blink*
Batman wrote:And no he's not (yes, I know there's been one and a half female Robins). Robin is what keeps me human. Alfred's a friend, as is Jim, but they're both...outsiders, where my job is concerned. Robin's an insider. He wears the tights, he suffered the same losses (at least for most of the canon ones), and he still lives. Robin not only goes to, he actually enjoys parties. He frets over having to lie to his girlfriend over his night job. He worries about how to into the pants of the original Batgirl (which, incidentally, goes for both Dick and Jason).He frets over another costumed crimefighter wannabe apparently having the hots for him when he already has a girlfriend. Robin is my link to the real world and a reminder that out in the real world, Bruce Wayne is the one who is the real person. Robin is the one who reminds me I actually have a life, not just an occupation.
Thereby basically doing the same thing Batman does both as himself and as Bruce Wayne. Not to mention all the kids who got nominated as Robin all bear a lot of similarities to Bruce himself, all following pretty much the same pattern. He's basically Batman's mini-me wearing a much less impressive costume.

I'm really not seeing how having a mini-me specifically is necessary for Batman to be reminded that not all is Grimdark. It would be better exemplified by him visiting kids at an orphanage and helping arrange for their adoption, having someone he talks to regularly while volunteering at at a homeless shelter, or even clandestinely funding several good schools in Gotham to ensure that the kids have a better foundation than he had to make something of their lives.

There are opportunities for "mundane" characters in each of those situations to help remind him of "real life" without adopting a little kid who looks just like him, sticking him in a ridiculous costume and dragging him along to fight grown men performing crimes.
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

- William Gibson


Josh wrote:What? There's nothing weird about having a pet housefly. He smuggles cigarettes for me.
User avatar
Josh
Resident of the Kingdom of Eternal Cockjobbery
Posts: 8114
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:51 pm
21
Location: Kingdom of Eternal Cockjobbery

#11 Re: ROBIN: Who Was Meant To Wear The Red, Green & Yellow?

Post by Josh »

Speaking from the perspective of 'not a big Batman fan' I tend to fall on Cat's side. The reason that most of the movies have been Robin-less is due to the fact that Batman works best as a solitary predator-type. If you want to get into the comics, Bats also has Superman for an inside-the-tights perspective on things as well.

On the other hand, having a decoy in bright primary colors is always handy.
When the Frog God smiles, arm yourself.
"'Flammable' and 'inflammable' have the same meaning! This language is insane!"
GIVE ME COFFEE AND I WILL ALLOW YOU TO LIVE!- Frigid
"Ork 'as no automatic code o' survival. 'is partic'lar distinction from all udda livin' gits is tha necessity ta act inna face o' alternatives by means o' dakka."
I created the sound of madness, wrote the book on pain
Post Reply