STGOD! OOC Thread.

[Screwball]

Well, what's the point of having them, then? Are they just supposed to be there as punching bags for the PCs that otherwise sit completely inactive? If the answer is 'no' then they're logically going to ally themselves with somebody, since that's the logical thing to do if you find somebody you have common cause with. For example, the Chinese minors should really ally themselves together in the face of me and Frigid, or Mongolia should ally itself with Russia and Sinkiang and Yunnan should align them with the Mughals. Having them not at least try to do so is pretty implausible.

If the answer is 'yes' then what's the point of having Japan at all? Nobody in the region is going to have a navy capable of defeating the IJN anyway, and they're unlikely to be able to stand up to the much stronger than OTL East Asian land powers successfully without allies anyway. Why not just leave the land blank?

Not saying that they should automatically become best buddies with me, or Frigid or anybody else in the area, but they are supposed to be a major power, if they're anything like OTL. Having them be a diplomatic nonentity would be ridiculous, and considering their strategic position, they'd certainly at least try to play the mainland powers off against one another, as Britain historically did in Europe.

My point, pretty much, is that if NPCs aren't going to do anything, then they shouldn't be in the game. If anybody ever followed the Lords of Ether story debate on SB.com, one of the things that made it awesome was that the NPCs actually did stuff, and that they were powerful enough in their own right to not just be punching bags for the players. I'm not saying that these NPCs should be that active (I presume our GMs have other things to do), but they shouldn't just be inert lumps that only respond to PC actions.

I also realise that having said that, I'm probably going to get my arse kicked by mongolian mind flayers or something.

[Slacker]

I agree with Screwball. I've always had at least semi-active NPCs in Ad Astra and Shattered Sphere. If workload's an issue, I could always help out, say, in China, an Asian player could keep an eye on Spain, etc.

---

Had-you're really not going to have a Russian navy? I built all those battleships for a cataclysmic confrontation in the Baltic that's not going to happen?

Guess I should fix my points allocation, then.

[Steve]

Well, you still need to protect your sealanes to Africa and India....

[rhoenix]

My point, pretty much, is that if NPCs aren't going to do anything, then they shouldn't be in the game. If anybody ever followed the Lords of Ether story debate on SB.com, one of the things that made it awesome was that the NPCs actually did stuff, and that they were powerful enough in their own right to not just be punching bags for the players. I'm not saying that these NPCs should be that active (I presume our GMs have other things to do), but they shouldn't just be inert lumps that only respond to PC actions.

I agree with you in your latter points, that NPC's should actually do stuff instead of curled up into a ball sobbing while they wait for the pain to arrive. I do think NPC's should be in this game for that reason, for flavor, and also because there really shouldn't be very many "here be dragons" areas in the 1930's.

[Charon]

Well, what's the point of having them, then? Are they just supposed to be there as punching bags for the PCs that otherwise sit completely inactive? If the answer is 'no' then they're logically going to ally themselves with somebody, since that's the logical thing to do if you find somebody you have common cause with. For example, the Chinese minors should really ally themselves together in the face of me and Frigid, or Mongolia should ally itself with Russia and Sinkiang and Yunnan should align them with the Mughals. Having them not at least try to do so is pretty implausible.

If the answer is 'yes' then what's the point of having Japan at all? Nobody in the region is going to have a navy capable of defeating the IJN anyway, and they're unlikely to be able to stand up to the much stronger than OTL East Asian land powers successfully without allies anyway. Why not just leave the land blank?

Not saying that they should automatically become best buddies with me, or Frigid or anybody else in the area, but they are supposed to be a major power, if they're anything like OTL. Having them be a diplomatic nonentity would be ridiculous, and considering their strategic position, they'd certainly at least try to play the mainland powers off against one another, as Britain historically did in Europe.

My point, pretty much, is that if NPCs aren't going to do anything, then they shouldn't be in the game. If anybody ever followed the Lords of Ether story debate on SB.com, one of the things that made it awesome was that the NPCs actually did stuff, and that they were powerful enough in their own right to not just be punching bags for the players. I'm not saying that these NPCs should be that active (I presume our GMs have other things to do), but they shouldn't just be inert lumps that only respond to PC actions.

I also realise that having said that, I'm probably going to get my arse kicked by mongolian mind flayers or something.

Ia Ia Cthulhu fhtagn.

I'll try my best to do something with the NPC states, but for the most part they may end up being reactionary. After all both Magi and I have our own states that we have to look over. I'll see if I can throw a Deep One your way if you really want though.

[Hotfoot]

NPC states actively doing something are a damn lot of work for mods and have to be coordinated in such a way as to not be "Free armies" for people. If Spain, Japan, etc. exist for the purpose of giving some lazy bastard who can't negotiate with real people extra force of arms "just because". Let them be speedbumps, acts of mod to punish people who leave borders undefended, but other than that, no, I say let them largely be placeholders for players yet to come, if anything. Otherwise, I vote to have them be plague-infested shitholes not worth even going near, because I will be damned if someone tries to use them to negotiate themselves two or even three powers instead of one. The hell with that.

[frigidmagi]

I thought I was clear that the mods would be taking care of the NPCs? Basically the NPCs will act. But they are not the main actors, and their actions will be decided by the mods as a group. There are of course some exceptions to this. I will not be involved in any discussions over the actions of NPCs in Asia. Cat will not be involved in discussions over Spain.

In my view though you're not gonna see to many alliances, the NPCs have been, with the exception of Japan, the historical losers of our timeline. Spain has had a global all but ripped away from it. Iran is ringed around by heretics and kaffurs.

Any one who tried to auto an NPC will get magi very, very cranky. When magi gets very, very cranky parts of your army are likely to vanish from existence. Expensive parts. With long build times.

Also I've called repeatably for volunteers to create NPC OOBs. If I don't get them soon, especially after this event, I'm going to get annoyed as it stands I've been asking since Saturday and I've gotten jack and shit. Meaning way more work for your mod, which isn't very smart of you in my view.

By the way, you cannot write up an NPC who is next or even close to you. I'm grumpy not stupid.

[Steve]

Suppose I could do one for Iran, since you asked so nicely.

I suppose the prospect of non-mobilization activation of reservist units is out of the question? Even if placed under heavy limits or some such?

[frigidmagi]

I suppose the prospect of non-mobilization activation of reservist units is out of the question? Even if placed under heavy limits or some such?

Yes. It's not happening.

[Hadrianvs]

Well, you still need to protect your sealanes to Africa and India....

From 1200 points of submarines...

Also potentially the Mughal Navy.

Also I've called repeatably for volunteers to create NPC OOBs. If I don't get them soon, especially after this event, I'm going to get annoyed as it stands I've been asking since Saturday and I've gotten jack and shit. Meaning way more work for your mod, which isn't very smart of you in my view.

By the way, you cannot write up an NPC who is next or even close to you. I'm grumpy not stupid.

I was going to volunteer for Spain, but you were already working on it. Also the North Atlantic is a bit of a common area of interest, so I don't know how Kosher it would be. I can't do any other NPC.

[Steve]

Looking at the possible point spread of Persia, well, heh, that's an NPC the neighbors may have fun with....

[frigidmagi]

A reminder that Iran and the Chinese States only have 15pts.

Also Screw can you please list how many regiments are attached to your divisions?

[Marcao]

I am doing the write up for Japan. It should be up by tonight.

[Charon]

Well, you still need to protect your sealanes to Africa and India....

From 1200 points of submarines...

Also potentially the Mughal Navy.

We're gonna have a chat you and I if I start seeing 1200 points of submarines in my waters...

[Silence]

Talking with Steve and relooking at the map, I think if I can still do so, I'll drop the Middle East holdings in favor of Canada, which I do admit, makes far more sense when I put some thought into it. If its not too late to change my colonial holdings.

OOB will be forthcoming.

[Hadrianvs]

We're gonna have a chat you and I if I start seeing 1200 points of submarines in my waters...

I'm going to have a chat with the head of the Admiralty if he's stupid enough to send my submarine fleet so far from their supply bases.

[Hadrianvs]

Windsept, that's very un-Mongolian. The Mongolian Khan is not going to be even idly considering conquering the rest of China. His primary interests would be keeping himself in power in his role as Khan, and promoting Tibetan Budhism in his roles as Ninth Javzandamba Khutagt and Bogd Gegeen. He's running a Buddhist Theocracy. Furthermore, like the Dalai Lama he's not a hereditary ruler, but is rather identified as a re-incarnation of somebody important by passing a series of tests. So he cannot be descended from Ghenghis Khan. That's just not how Mongolian politcs worked before the Commies got involved. And, guess what? No commies here.

This is one of my "areas of interest" which is a polite way of saying, "there will be shenanigans here". So I've researched them so that I may plan accordingly. Plans, I might add, which have been in the works since I thought that NPC armies would be non-entities against anybody but another NPC.

[frigidmagi]

Hadri, you're not a mod so you can't dictate here. That said I've bluntly told Sweeps to go try again.

[frigidmagi]

Okay Havoc, Steve? Put those ship names in the same post as your OOB. Guys I don't care if your one post is huge and insane, but I want your information there not scattered across 5 posts across 3 pages.

[rhoenix]

OOB for the Mongol Empire heavily edited for accuracy and plausibility. Fort locales and such to come.

[frigidmagi]

Talking with Steve and relooking at the map, I think if I can still do so, I'll drop the Middle East holdings in favor of Canada, which I do admit, makes far more sense when I put some thought into it. If its not too late to change my colonial holdings.

That's perfectly fine Silence.

[Hadrianvs]

Hadri, you're not a mod so you can't dictate here. That said I've bluntly told Sweeps to go try again.

Wasn't a dictation or order, was merely stating the facts.

Looking at that OOB though, I get the feeling Windsept didn't like my delivery. *smirks* I mean, 5 Industry? Damn, I thought I was the only one who picked that.

Anyway, I believe that I mentioned Mongolian Khans don't have illustrious ancestors, though the "raised from childhood" bit is correct. Usually Lamas identify the next Javzandamba Khutagt during his early childhood. This was done a few years after the old one died, since they were supposed to be reincarnations of the same guy. Incidentally, only the first, second, and ninth Javzandamba Khutagt's were Mongolians. In the period in between the Qing Chinese decreed that they would be found among Tibet's population rather than Mongolia's. I guess when you're the Son of Heaven, you get to give orders to the dead.

Also, the title Khan is royal, not imperial. The imperial title is Khagan, and I doubt anybody would claim to be a Khagan while holding only a small territory like Mongolia, unless they inherited the title. Not even Temujin did it. He got it posthumously after he conquered half of Asia. So it would be the Mongol Khanate or the Mongol Kingdom.


As a side comment, by my account Greater China now adds up to an 80 point power. Ho-ly shit.

[Charon]

Actually I grabbed Industry 5 as well. Didn't do it with only 15 points though. Ouch.

As for the points in Greater China, yeah that's China for you. Aren't you glad they all hate each other?

And isn't it more than 80? If you include Japan (who I think has contested claims in Manchuria) there are 6 powers in Greater China.

[rhoenix]

Thanks Hadrian - it may be an NPC, but I'd like to get the base details right.

[Hadrianvs]

Actually I grabbed Industry 5 as well. Didn't do it with only 15 points though. Ouch.

No idea where they're getting the machine tools, iron, and raw materials. Or, for that matter, how 10 million people can run that much industry. But Mongolia at least does have the coal to power it. Something on the order of one or two hundred milliard tonnes.

And isn't it more than 80? If you include Japan (who I think has contested claims in Manchuria) there are 6 powers in Greater China.

Japan is not a Chinese power, their main industrial and population bases are in the Japanese islands and Korea.

Manchuria should be coloured yellow with burgundy stripes, since by this point it's almost a puppet state with the Russians and Japanese tugging at different strings. This is why it didn't get any points. When one of the two overlords manages to kick the other out, and believe me when I say both sides are furiously plotting this, then they would have their very own nation-sized lapdog. Let's just say that it might be a tad game breaking if it came with its own army and industry.

Thanks Hadrian - it may be an NPC, but I'd like to get the base details right.

Ah, neat. You're welcome.